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	<title>Comments on: Finding Misery in Another Programmer&#8217;s Success</title>
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	<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/</link>
	<description>&#34;Hello World&#34; - The SlickEdit Developer Blog</description>
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		<title>By: yelinna</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-888</link>
		<dc:creator>yelinna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-888</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your final words, I&#039;m trying to master C#.
But all programmers must know the basics and how things work deeper/inside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your final words, I&#8217;m trying to master C#.<br />
But all programmers must know the basics and how things work deeper/inside.</p>
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		<title>By: d3r1v3d</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>d3r1v3d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-415</guid>
		<description>@Scott Hackett:
I&#039;ve also seen much head-scratching occur when a Java OutOfMemory exception is thrown in response to a &#039;heavy&#039; object being instantiated consistently within the confines of a loop. Sometimes, if these objects internally utilize resources which require explicit disposal (databases, files, etc), the garbage collector won&#039;t deallocate them and you end up overflowing the stack with even a modest amount of object instantiations. 

Sure, these cases tend to be few and far between, but oftentimes I find having a C++ background helpful in forming a bridge when debugging between what&#039;s broken and why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott Hackett:<br />
I&#8217;ve also seen much head-scratching occur when a Java OutOfMemory exception is thrown in response to a &#8216;heavy&#8217; object being instantiated consistently within the confines of a loop. Sometimes, if these objects internally utilize resources which require explicit disposal (databases, files, etc), the garbage collector won&#8217;t deallocate them and you end up overflowing the stack with even a modest amount of object instantiations. </p>
<p>Sure, these cases tend to be few and far between, but oftentimes I find having a C++ background helpful in forming a bridge when debugging between what&#8217;s broken and why.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Hackett</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Hackett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-414</guid>
		<description>@d3r1v3d: You make a good point.  I&#039;ll definitely admit that the garbage collector in Java and C# gives most programmers a flase sense of security that everything&#039;s going to be cleaned up automatically for them.  Not so for a lot of what C# and Java call &quot;disposable&quot; objects... objects of classes that implement IDisposable.  Fonts, bitmaps, pens, brushes, all kinds of things, especially in graphics, all wrap a system resource that must be explicitly freed by calling Dispose.  So you have this case where sometimes you do have to clean up after objects and sometimes you don&#039;t, and that can easily lead to confusion and potentially missed cases.  Having that background of carefully inspecting for unfreed objects makes you a lot more vigilant about not letting that happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@d3r1v3d: You make a good point.  I&#8217;ll definitely admit that the garbage collector in Java and C# gives most programmers a flase sense of security that everything&#8217;s going to be cleaned up automatically for them.  Not so for a lot of what C# and Java call &#8220;disposable&#8221; objects&#8230; objects of classes that implement IDisposable.  Fonts, bitmaps, pens, brushes, all kinds of things, especially in graphics, all wrap a system resource that must be explicitly freed by calling Dispose.  So you have this case where sometimes you do have to clean up after objects and sometimes you don&#8217;t, and that can easily lead to confusion and potentially missed cases.  Having that background of carefully inspecting for unfreed objects makes you a lot more vigilant about not letting that happen.</p>
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		<title>By: d3r1v3d</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>d3r1v3d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-413</guid>
		<description>I disagree. 

I think a lot of the perceived snobbery that shadows those proficient in C/C++/ASM/[insert non-garbage-collected language here] is ill-placed. Personally, I consider myself knowledgeable in a broad spectrum of languages ranging across a slew of scripting languages and others including Java, C#, etc. However, I was weaned into programming as an undergraduate by learning how to program in C++, and I think it&#039;s a damn shame that the curriculums have since changed to teach Java instead.

It is a pure and simple fact that most people who are proficient in C or C++ are also knowledgeable in optimization - to some degree. And I think this is where a lot of other languages are a let-down, in this regard. C++ is built, from the ground-up, for speed. And, to use it well, you need to know all about memory issues (possible fragmentation, leaks, utilizing block pools, etc) and, as a consequence, you learn some of the intricacies of how the language interacts with the system beneath it. And since Java, C#, and most new languages hide this under a layer of abstraction, most programmers using these languages will put their faith in the garbage collector and continue doing what they wish.

All I&#039;m saying is, it&#039;s perfectly legitimate for those unindoctrinated in plumbing the mysterious depths of C/C++ to get the stink-eye. Odds are, they deserve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree. </p>
<p>I think a lot of the perceived snobbery that shadows those proficient in C/C++/ASM/[insert non-garbage-collected language here] is ill-placed. Personally, I consider myself knowledgeable in a broad spectrum of languages ranging across a slew of scripting languages and others including Java, C#, etc. However, I was weaned into programming as an undergraduate by learning how to program in C++, and I think it&#8217;s a damn shame that the curriculums have since changed to teach Java instead.</p>
<p>It is a pure and simple fact that most people who are proficient in C or C++ are also knowledgeable in optimization &#8211; to some degree. And I think this is where a lot of other languages are a let-down, in this regard. C++ is built, from the ground-up, for speed. And, to use it well, you need to know all about memory issues (possible fragmentation, leaks, utilizing block pools, etc) and, as a consequence, you learn some of the intricacies of how the language interacts with the system beneath it. And since Java, C#, and most new languages hide this under a layer of abstraction, most programmers using these languages will put their faith in the garbage collector and continue doing what they wish.</p>
<p>All I&#8217;m saying is, it&#8217;s perfectly legitimate for those unindoctrinated in plumbing the mysterious depths of C/C++ to get the stink-eye. Odds are, they deserve it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-412</guid>
		<description>It is good to read this post as getting stuck as the &quot;____ guy&quot; when I wanted to do something else has happened to me.   It is helpful to me to know that it has happened to others.

A bit of it is ego, but it is also anger at having wanted to pursue a particular kind of work, having been promised it and then having that promise broken.  

It is like being a plumber, going out on a service call, and having someone hand you a pushbroom to clean up their house.

Those situations wouldn&#039;t be so bad if you could work your way out of them, but that possibility is not always there.

I agree for personal happiness it is better to put your anger aside.  It is better to go find another job where you can do the kind of work you want and not fester at your current spot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is good to read this post as getting stuck as the &#8220;____ guy&#8221; when I wanted to do something else has happened to me.   It is helpful to me to know that it has happened to others.</p>
<p>A bit of it is ego, but it is also anger at having wanted to pursue a particular kind of work, having been promised it and then having that promise broken.  </p>
<p>It is like being a plumber, going out on a service call, and having someone hand you a pushbroom to clean up their house.</p>
<p>Those situations wouldn&#8217;t be so bad if you could work your way out of them, but that possibility is not always there.</p>
<p>I agree for personal happiness it is better to put your anger aside.  It is better to go find another job where you can do the kind of work you want and not fester at your current spot.</p>
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		<title>By: jjacksonRIAB</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator>jjacksonRIAB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-411</guid>
		<description>I program in C# and hate it.  I liken it to using a language as complicated as C++ with the speed of BASIC.

It&#039;s not because I did things the &quot;hard way&quot;, it&#039;s because I&#039;m trying to look at the big picture.  In my line of work, all the customer cares about is that your application works well, runs fast, plays well with other apps, supports the features they need, and comes out on time.  They don&#039;t give a damn what language you write it in, and no language can give you all of those.  Why not?

I&#039;ve seen brilliance in all languages, but I&#039;ve yet to see one that&#039;s balanced enough to sit squarely in the middle of the user&#039;s requirements, or is flexible enough to extend along any of the vectors you desire.

What bothers me most is rehashed languages, and lately it seems to me that the industry has just been stagnant and programming is no longer fun because we&#039;re no longer actually programming so much as we are gluing disparate pieces of other people&#039;s code together.

Sometimes I feel RAD is the assembly line of programming, and a good deal of the creative aspect of programming is gone.  This is not limited to just RAD.  All programmers do it to an extent, almost like they want to do everything they can to avoid programming at all.  Sure it makes you deliver on time, barring any bugs that are in other people&#039;s software, but you never really learn anything from it either.  That&#039;s my take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I program in C# and hate it.  I liken it to using a language as complicated as C++ with the speed of BASIC.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not because I did things the &#8220;hard way&#8221;, it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m trying to look at the big picture.  In my line of work, all the customer cares about is that your application works well, runs fast, plays well with other apps, supports the features they need, and comes out on time.  They don&#8217;t give a damn what language you write it in, and no language can give you all of those.  Why not?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen brilliance in all languages, but I&#8217;ve yet to see one that&#8217;s balanced enough to sit squarely in the middle of the user&#8217;s requirements, or is flexible enough to extend along any of the vectors you desire.</p>
<p>What bothers me most is rehashed languages, and lately it seems to me that the industry has just been stagnant and programming is no longer fun because we&#8217;re no longer actually programming so much as we are gluing disparate pieces of other people&#8217;s code together.</p>
<p>Sometimes I feel RAD is the assembly line of programming, and a good deal of the creative aspect of programming is gone.  This is not limited to just RAD.  All programmers do it to an extent, almost like they want to do everything they can to avoid programming at all.  Sure it makes you deliver on time, barring any bugs that are in other people&#8217;s software, but you never really learn anything from it either.  That&#8217;s my take.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Landis</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Landis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-410</guid>
		<description>You make a great point Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a great point Scott</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-409</guid>
		<description>From my experience lots of programmers that only used high level languages write horrible code that sadly &quot;works&quot;. If you suck in C/C++/asm it will show up way faster, but that&#039;s not a reason to distrust other programmers or despise high level languages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my experience lots of programmers that only used high level languages write horrible code that sadly &#8220;works&#8221;. If you suck in C/C++/asm it will show up way faster, but that&#8217;s not a reason to distrust other programmers or despise high level languages.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-408</guid>
		<description>I agree.  I&#039;m looking at *you*, Linus Torvalds, and all you other C weenies who think programming in C makes you better programmers.  C has a set of tasks that it&#039;s good at, and a set that it&#039;s bad at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  I&#8217;m looking at *you*, Linus Torvalds, and all you other C weenies who think programming in C makes you better programmers.  C has a set of tasks that it&#8217;s good at, and a set that it&#8217;s bad at.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Schimanski</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Schimanski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-407</guid>
		<description>Great Post Scott.  There are many languages out there, compiled, interpreted, bytecode based, dynamic, static, imperative, OOP, functional, declarative.  Learn as many as you can.  Learn where certain languages are best used and where another choice may be better.  And don&#039;t pick on the VB/Ruby/whatever programmers because they are getting work done.  Now, if they are choosing VB6 as a choice for an enterprise wide, needs to be highly scalable, distributed, multi-threaded application, you should have some questions ready. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Post Scott.  There are many languages out there, compiled, interpreted, bytecode based, dynamic, static, imperative, OOP, functional, declarative.  Learn as many as you can.  Learn where certain languages are best used and where another choice may be better.  And don&#8217;t pick on the VB/Ruby/whatever programmers because they are getting work done.  Now, if they are choosing VB6 as a choice for an enterprise wide, needs to be highly scalable, distributed, multi-threaded application, you should have some questions ready. <img src='http://blog.slickedit.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Albert Sweigart</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Sweigart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-406</guid>
		<description>Good article. It sums up points I&#039;ve been making about the &quot;garbage collection is bad and I still believe Java is slow&quot; crowd in a very succinct manner.

I got into software development because ever since I was a kid I thought programming was fun. I still think it&#039;s fun, but I&#039;ve come to realize that programming is just a means to an end. What I want to do is &lt;i&gt;create software&lt;/i&gt; that &lt;i&gt;people can actually use.&lt;/i&gt;

Again, good article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article. It sums up points I&#8217;ve been making about the &#8220;garbage collection is bad and I still believe Java is slow&#8221; crowd in a very succinct manner.</p>
<p>I got into software development because ever since I was a kid I thought programming was fun. I still think it&#8217;s fun, but I&#8217;ve come to realize that programming is just a means to an end. What I want to do is <i>create software</i> that <i>people can actually use.</i></p>
<p>Again, good article.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Hackett</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Hackett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-405</guid>
		<description>But who does entirely know what&#039;s happening outside the code they write?  If you program in C++, how often do you read the code for STL or even step into it?  Do you step into the kernel when you make OS level calls?  Of course not!  99% of programmers from the ground up rely on massive leaps of faith that the the functions they call just work.  That means that to some degree, everyone is working on a high level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But who does entirely know what&#8217;s happening outside the code they write?  If you program in C++, how often do you read the code for STL or even step into it?  Do you step into the kernel when you make OS level calls?  Of course not!  99% of programmers from the ground up rely on massive leaps of faith that the the functions they call just work.  That means that to some degree, everyone is working on a high level.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-404</guid>
		<description>Bobo, when&#039;s the last time you fixed a bug in your compiler?  It will always pay to understand the level of abstraction right below you, but beyond that, just file a bug report.  Every layer of abstraction will always be actively maintained and improved by somebody, but it doesn&#039;t have to be you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bobo, when&#8217;s the last time you fixed a bug in your compiler?  It will always pay to understand the level of abstraction right below you, but beyond that, just file a bug report.  Every layer of abstraction will always be actively maintained and improved by somebody, but it doesn&#8217;t have to be you.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Mudge</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Mudge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-403</guid>
		<description>I just resent the idea of not understanding or even being aware of what is happening when your code is ran, whatever the language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just resent the idea of not understanding or even being aware of what is happening when your code is ran, whatever the language.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward J. Stembler</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward J. Stembler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-401</guid>
		<description>I was definitely one of those elitist snobs in the past.  I used to despise low barrier of entry languages such as VB.  They seem to be enablers for unskilled, untrained hobby programmers; people that normally wouldn&#039;t be a programmer.  The effect being that higher levels of garbage software gets created.  And the martket for skilled programmers becomes devalued.

I used to joke with my friends that software development should be unionized and regulated.  Each programmer would have to go through required training and certifications.  A programmer would be rated for what types of projects they can competently work on.  This would help weed out or identify the bad programmers.

As we progress technically as a society, we come to rely more and more on software everyday.  A union would help safegaurd mission critical software systems.

In any case, I digress.  These days the object of my ire has shifted to outsourcing of software development to offshore 3rd world countries...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was definitely one of those elitist snobs in the past.  I used to despise low barrier of entry languages such as VB.  They seem to be enablers for unskilled, untrained hobby programmers; people that normally wouldn&#8217;t be a programmer.  The effect being that higher levels of garbage software gets created.  And the martket for skilled programmers becomes devalued.</p>
<p>I used to joke with my friends that software development should be unionized and regulated.  Each programmer would have to go through required training and certifications.  A programmer would be rated for what types of projects they can competently work on.  This would help weed out or identify the bad programmers.</p>
<p>As we progress technically as a society, we come to rely more and more on software everyday.  A union would help safegaurd mission critical software systems.</p>
<p>In any case, I digress.  These days the object of my ire has shifted to outsourcing of software development to offshore 3rd world countries&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-400</guid>
		<description>I love my ASM. All those C++ guys are just posers.

Seriously though, I love PHP too and when it comes down to it a language is just a language. Everyone needs to get off their high horses and realize that most of development is theory. If you have the theory any language is just syntax. Even ASM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love my ASM. All those C++ guys are just posers.</p>
<p>Seriously though, I love PHP too and when it comes down to it a language is just a language. Everyone needs to get off their high horses and realize that most of development is theory. If you have the theory any language is just syntax. Even ASM.</p>
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		<title>By: Krink</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>Krink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-399</guid>
		<description>I think there needs to be a word to describe those whose smug attitude stems from the fact that they work at a &lt;i&gt;higher&lt;/i&gt; level of abstraction, like the Ruby developers who think Java developers should envy them because it takes fewer keystrokes to write a for loop in Ruby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there needs to be a word to describe those whose smug attitude stems from the fact that they work at a <i>higher</i> level of abstraction, like the Ruby developers who think Java developers should envy them because it takes fewer keystrokes to write a for loop in Ruby.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-398</guid>
		<description>When I was in Undergraduate Calc II, we had to buy as a requirement the TI-92. This calculator was great... not only did it graph, but it could do matrix algebra, equation solving and some derivatives and integrals. 

Of course, some professors had a nutty about people running around with these calculators, up to the point of forbidding them in class. They argued that students weren&#039;t learning how to solve equations or do integrals by hand since the calculator was doing it for them. 

This was perfectly true. The point of the calculator was to allow us to do much more complicated problems with very interesting solutions without getting hung up on the final integral needed to get the answer.

My advisor put it perfectly: &quot;When calculators first came out, math professors were outraged because students no longer bothered to learn how to calculate a sin or a tan by hand. Of course, no one does this now because it&#039;s a waste of time that is better spent doing more complicated problems&quot;. 

Just because you can code in a low level language doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s better to do so. I know it&#039;s a painful ego hip-check to the die hard coders out there, but using high level languages saves time, and time is money. If you are still holding on to C++ with a death grip because you feel superior, you&#039;re just dating your skills and making yourself less marketable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was in Undergraduate Calc II, we had to buy as a requirement the TI-92. This calculator was great&#8230; not only did it graph, but it could do matrix algebra, equation solving and some derivatives and integrals. </p>
<p>Of course, some professors had a nutty about people running around with these calculators, up to the point of forbidding them in class. They argued that students weren&#8217;t learning how to solve equations or do integrals by hand since the calculator was doing it for them. </p>
<p>This was perfectly true. The point of the calculator was to allow us to do much more complicated problems with very interesting solutions without getting hung up on the final integral needed to get the answer.</p>
<p>My advisor put it perfectly: &#8220;When calculators first came out, math professors were outraged because students no longer bothered to learn how to calculate a sin or a tan by hand. Of course, no one does this now because it&#8217;s a waste of time that is better spent doing more complicated problems&#8221;. </p>
<p>Just because you can code in a low level language doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s better to do so. I know it&#8217;s a painful ego hip-check to the die hard coders out there, but using high level languages saves time, and time is money. If you are still holding on to C++ with a death grip because you feel superior, you&#8217;re just dating your skills and making yourself less marketable.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Chung</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Chung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-397</guid>
		<description>Bobo, you can dig a hole with a spoon if you like, but I would rather use a shovel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bobo, you can dig a hole with a spoon if you like, but I would rather use a shovel.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobo the sperm whale</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobo the sperm whale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-396</guid>
		<description>In the future, we&#039;ll all be coding to abstractions on top of abstractions on top of another pile of abstractions forming a technology stack so high up, no-one really understands how or why it works.  When that day comes, debugging will become really, really difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the future, we&#8217;ll all be coding to abstractions on top of abstractions on top of another pile of abstractions forming a technology stack so high up, no-one really understands how or why it works.  When that day comes, debugging will become really, really difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: markus</title>
		<link>http://blog.slickedit.com/2008/04/finding-misery-in-another-programmers-success/comment-page-1/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>markus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.slickedit.com/?p=224#comment-395</guid>
		<description>I am not sure that this sentiment is correct or not.
I am not saying it is wrong, I am just thinking that it depends a lot on where someone works at.

We can take the growth of the www, and the aspects (html, xml, css, javascript, lateron php etc..) are all not that difficult to understand.

Altogether they are rather complex still, but one by one they are not so complex.

I think when one contrasts these with something like C++ then I wonder why any C++ coder does not realize that complexity in itself is a problem.

It is a problem with the above combination too, but the single problems are much easier to understand than wondering about templates usage and parser happiness. It is why I predominantly write in Ruby mostly, but the biggest aspect is the human factor in it. 

And I also have begun to really appreciate data as a first step to a solution. It may be awkward to say but I think if you have all the data, and if you manage to put it into a structure, you have a lot of the solution before your feet already.

I even think that tying data into .h files is not a very good solution. Nor to tie it into XML (but at least XML conquered the world...) 



I think I digress here, so my point is:
I basically agree with what you wrote here. It is important to acknowledge that there are good solutions in every language, even in languages that suck. And in the long run, people will tend to use solutions that &quot;give them more for their bucks/time&quot; in various aspects, i.e. by using higher level languages that allow them to control a lot of things.

In fact I even believe that when someone uses i.e. python, it does not matter much if he is on windows or on Linux. So in a way, these easy languages will continually win people that use them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure that this sentiment is correct or not.<br />
I am not saying it is wrong, I am just thinking that it depends a lot on where someone works at.</p>
<p>We can take the growth of the www, and the aspects (html, xml, css, javascript, lateron php etc..) are all not that difficult to understand.</p>
<p>Altogether they are rather complex still, but one by one they are not so complex.</p>
<p>I think when one contrasts these with something like C++ then I wonder why any C++ coder does not realize that complexity in itself is a problem.</p>
<p>It is a problem with the above combination too, but the single problems are much easier to understand than wondering about templates usage and parser happiness. It is why I predominantly write in Ruby mostly, but the biggest aspect is the human factor in it. </p>
<p>And I also have begun to really appreciate data as a first step to a solution. It may be awkward to say but I think if you have all the data, and if you manage to put it into a structure, you have a lot of the solution before your feet already.</p>
<p>I even think that tying data into .h files is not a very good solution. Nor to tie it into XML (but at least XML conquered the world&#8230;) </p>
<p>I think I digress here, so my point is:<br />
I basically agree with what you wrote here. It is important to acknowledge that there are good solutions in every language, even in languages that suck. And in the long run, people will tend to use solutions that &#8220;give them more for their bucks/time&#8221; in various aspects, i.e. by using higher level languages that allow them to control a lot of things.</p>
<p>In fact I even believe that when someone uses i.e. python, it does not matter much if he is on windows or on Linux. So in a way, these easy languages will continually win people that use them.</p>
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